From Restrictive Diets to Food Freedom for PCOS with Mikaela Schifferle of Naked Wellness

Have you ever felt trapped in a cycle of binge eating and dieting, unsure how to break free and find peace with food? Today we are joined by Mikaela Schifferle from KJ Wellness and the Naked Wellness Podcast on her remarkable story of triumph over a troubled relationship with food and body image. Together, we dissect the tangled web of nutrition, satisfaction, and the nuances of eating mindfully. Michaela's expertise shines as we navigate the importance of protein, healthy fats, and fibrous vegetables, particularly for those managing insulin resistance. Her approach? A nourishing balance of foods that don't just fuel the body but also gratify the soul.

Turning the page to a chapter many of us can relate to, we probe the sensitive intersection of body image and health, casting a spotlight on the unique struggles my clients with PCOS face. This conversation is a candid exploration of the deep-seated beliefs that often tether self-worth to our physical form, and how shifting these perceptions can lead to a more compassionate self-narrative. The strategies we share are designed to rewire the core beliefs about self-worth and prioritize comprehensive self-care, helping to redefine what health truly means and how it feels to embrace yourself fully.

Mentioned in the Episode:

Books-

When Food is Love: https://amzn.to/3IUgzJG

Just Eat It: https://amzn.to/3x85xxU

Connect with Mikaela here-

KJ Wellness: https://kjwellness.com.au/

@kjwellness on instagram: http://www.instagram.com/kjwellness

Naked Wellness Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/naked-wellness/id1619248256

Chapters

• 0:00 Recovery From Binge Eating Journeys
• 13:01 Healthy Nutrition Basics and Satisfaction
• 23:55 Body Image and PCOS Health
• 29:11 Transforming Mindset and Healthy Habits

Transcript

Amber Fischer: 0:37

Welcome back to an Amber a day, the functional nutrition podcast. I'm your host, amber Fisher, and today I've got a very special guest. This is Michaela shiffer Lee of KJ wellness, and Michaela specializes in food freedom and recovery from binge eating. She's a really interesting and unique perspective and message, so I'm really excited to talk to her because I know this is something that a lot of my PCOS Clients and listeners have dealt with. It's very common in our community, so Let me introduce you, michaela. Tell us a little bit about yourself Amazing.

Mikaela Schifferle: 1:12

Thank you so much for having me here. I'm so excited to chat about this topic because, you're right, there are so many people that do experience this. So a little bit about me. I run KJ wellness, which is my business, which helps young women to stop binge eating, heal their relationship with food and, honestly, it is my pride of passion. I personally have been through my own journey with having a terrible relationship with food, a terrible relationship with my body and Binge eating, and so coming out the other side of that, where now I do have complete control, I was like this this needs to be something that every single woman experiences, right? Because that freedom that you have is just so incredibly powerful and I mean I can definitely Dive into what that journey is if that's something that yeah, yeah, I would love to hear that.

Amber Fischer: 2:00

Tell us a little bit more about that.

Mikaela Schifferle: 2:02

Cool. So, going right back to the beginning, when I was in high school, I got really, really sick with a parasite and I lost a lot of weight very quickly and it was obviously very unhealthy because everything I ate came back back up or out One end or the other, and so obviously not a healthy way of losing weight.

Mikaela Schifferle: 2:22

But I was at that ripe age of like 15 16, and so I started getting compliments oh my god, you look amazing. How are you losing all the weight? That's great. And so in my head I started to be like, oh my god, when I look a certain way, I'm now more accepted. I get compliments right from people. So this then started to teach my brain that the smaller I am, the more accepted by my community and society I'm gonna be. So once.

Mikaela Schifferle: 2:46

I obviously had to get better from being so incredibly unwell. The weight gain started to come back on, which it needed to, because I was obviously now underway, because I'd been so sick. But as that weight gain came on, it's borrowed these unhealthy thoughts of oh my goodness, what if people no longer accept me anymore. So that's when I started to enter the world of Dieting restrictive eating, like you name it. I probably have tried.

Mikaela Schifferle: 3:07

I tried everything under the Sun to maintain this really unsustainable weight for my body, and it's borrowed into having a really unhealthy relationship with food. I was thinking about food 24 7. I was exhausted, I lost my period, I would have binge eating episodes. It just it was consuming every waking thought of every day. I was scared to go out and socialize and eat out with friends like it was really, really consuming, and so I Started stunning event management, actually, but I was like this is way too stressful. So I was like I'm really interested in health and fitness why I said stunning nutrition? And that was a really interesting journey in itself, because you learn so much information as a nutritionist and a dietitian that then you become almost obsessed with everything being healthy. It's like I can't have x, y, zed and pop things in different food groups and all like it's just, it's a lot.

Mikaela Schifferle: 4:01

So, coming out of that, I then actually worked in Weight Watchers for four years and this is when I actually started to go through my own journey of healing my relationship with food, because I got to this point when I was like I actually can't live my life like this. I am mentally and emotionally exhausted and physically exhausted and I'm missing out on actually living my life. And so, through Weight Watchers which was very eye-opening what I say in the world that these large weight loss companies, they, they pry on women's insecurities and vulnerabilities and they make us feel like absolute Crap and that our self-worth is only dictated by number and a. Being an employee there, you also have to weigh in, you also have to maintain a particular weight, and so you know I was trying to go through this journey of healing my relationship with food and they're there. Like you need to hop on the scales and if that number had gone up or down there, like we need an action plan Of how you're gonna get that back to the right, point right.

Mikaela Schifferle: 4:55

Like you had yet no idea.

Amber Fischer: 4:58

That's some tea, mikaela, I know.

Mikaela Schifferle: 5:03

And so I was like that this is, this is messed up. And the turning point for me was when I had a it's 70 she was maybe like 65 to 70, I can't remember exactly her age and she'd come in and she had fluctuated on the scale a couple of hundred grams and she stood there and she just broke down in tears and she was going on a holiday with her husband to Europe and she was like, oh, my goodness, you know, the scales have gone up a little bit. I don't want to go there, I don't want to eat the pizza in the past. Like what if I come back and I've gained all this weight? And her husband had actually said to her I will not sacrifice this holiday for your weight loss goals, you know, I want to go there and enjoy all of these foods.

Mikaela Schifferle: 5:38

And she was so petrified. It was literally impacting her relationship and her holiday and I was like that this is so wrong. You know you need to be able to live your life and that's when Leisure. I'm pretty sure I went home and resigned that day and that's where then I started my business, kj wellness, where I was like I need to help women get to this point that I had now actually got to as well, where I had complete control of food I had I'd like on against weight, which is let's weigh in, I was like, absolutely not like.

Mikaela Schifferle: 6:03

That's not myself work. You know, it doesn't really matter. At the end of the day, I'm healthy and I know I'm healthy and that's where I've now been able to help over 270 plus women to Stop the binge eating, heal their relationship with food, have that confidence in their body, not attach their self-worth to a number or On the scales or a number on a piece of clothing as well, and honestly like it is my pride and passion and I am so against restrictive diets. They are like out the window. We're not here for them.

Amber Fischer: 6:30

That's really, really fascinating. I think it it Resolidifies for me how often I hear this very similar theme from practitioners that what inspired them to get into their work in the first place was their own struggle with that particular issue. And I do have this little pet theory that I think some of us, who are meant to kind of be helpful and be healers and you know, in our lives we're almost gifted these experiences so that we can have true, profound empathy, because you know, if you hadn't gone through that, I wonder what your perspective would be. Because, like you said, when you become a Nutritionist or dietitian you go through all of that schooling.

Amber Fischer: 7:12

I find that people can go one of two ways. It's either they they get even more, like you said, restrictive. They it's like you know too much, and so you end up over obsessing about every little detail, stuff that the average person wouldn't even, it wouldn't even be on their radar. Or you can go in the complete opposite direction and just be like you know what I know, and this is kind of how I am. Every food, literally every food, could be positive or negative for a person, depending on their environmental context, their underlying health, their history, like so many factors go into it right. So it almost doesn't make sense to have any foods and good or bad categories, because really, at the end of the day, all foods are nuanced Like there's a lot of gray area in nutrition, you know. So that's really interesting. Also, what you said about Weight Watchers, I had no idea they made people weigh in, that's crazy. Wow, honestly, yeah, that's so insane we do have to live and pray there.

Mikaela Schifferle: 8:15

The interesting thing is that a lot of the coaches that they have they are women who have gone through the weight loss journey and have lost weight themselves on that journey, right? So then one of the things that I had a problem was they get then get up and they preach exactly what they had done. But the thing is everyone's so individualized and what works for them might not work for the next person, so then people are trying these things that then doesn't actually work with their lifestyle or their body, so then they end up bingeing or they end up having a really terrible relationship with food, and it's only fueling this fire of having an unhealthy relationship with themselves and food.

Amber Fischer: 8:52

Absolutely. I think that comes into play for PCOS a lot, because there are a lot of content creators in that, in this niche, that are also like lifestyle creators, who are people, women with PCOS, who have had some sort of success story through their own methods, and then they make that fundamental mistake of believing that, because they did it a certain way and it worked for them, that this is the way that it should be done for everybody. And then when people are hurting and confused and don't have answers, they really gravitate to people who seem like they have all the answers. But really what one person's experience, like you said, is, I mean it might work for you but realistically, like the chances of the exact process that one person used to work on their hormones or weight loss in this example, it may or may not actually be the right thing for you or make any difference whatsoever. I've even seen people go the complete opposite of what they're trying to do by following certain things. Like an example that I like to give is I know this person who has done the carnivore diet for a while and, to be fair, I mean she looks amazing, she's very strong, she does a lot of weightlifting, powerlifting stuff and she's convinced this is the thing, this is the answer and at least for the mean, like for now, it seems like it's working really well for her.

Amber Fischer: 10:46

But I really shudder when I think about, like, other women with PCOS trying something like that because, you know, number one I just don't think that that's a healthy, sustainable way of eating at all. But number two, like, even if it was, like it's just really so ridiculously restrictive and it really wouldn't work for anyone who's not maybe powerlifting like daily or something like that. Yeah, anyway, there are a lot of things like that. The keto diet there are a lot of women with PCOS who kind of get on keto because they're like, oh, I have insulin resistance and this is going to help me get my blood sugar down and then that's going to help heal my PCOS. And I can't tell you how many women come to me months later with damaged metabolisms, very damaged gut health, from following a really high saturated fat, high like meat diet, and then their hormones are not any better than they started with. And it's really sad because they put so much effort into it and I know they were trying to do the right thing.

Mikaela Schifferle: 11:52

So yeah, 100%.

Amber Fischer: 11:55

Speaking of insulin resistance one of the questions I wanted to ask you because this gets into the nuance of like intuitive eating and binge eating that I sometimes struggle with, I'll be honest, as a practitioner. There are some biochemical factors going into a condition like PCOS, where we might deal with something called like insulin resistance, and part of insulin resistance sometimes means also developing something called leptin resistance, which is where your hunger cues can be off. You have trouble feeling satiated when you are actually full. Your body sends the signals late. So how does a person who's dealing with those real hormonal instabilities also manage to recover from a binge eating kind of situation or to develop a more healthy relationship with food? What would you say to that?

Mikaela Schifferle: 13:00

100%. So I think to start off with, it's about coming back to the basics of looking at your nutrition, specifically with your main meals. Now, obviously, I would never recommend cutting out the carbs completely, but, yes, when you have that insulin resistance, you have to be a little bit more mindful and maybe put a little bit more thought into that. So it would be really about focusing on adding and making sure that you have got that adequate protein aspect to every single one of your meals. You know, really aiming for anywhere between that 30 to 40 grams of protein at your meals. And then one thing that I find and especially if women have come from a background of calorie counting or going on restrictive diets is fats. It's like fats are non-existent in their diet. Right, it's the first thing to go when they start calorie counting. These are fundamental. Like, literally, as humans, we have fat soluble vitamins, vitamin A, d, e and K. Your body cannot absorb without having those healthy fats in your diet. But also, this is going to slow down that digestion and release of the carbohydrates turning into glucose. So it's so important that you actually have these into diet. So it's literally as simple as adding in your avocado, olive oil, flax seeds, nuts seeds, all that sort of stuff. Salmon is amazing. And when you think about your plate, really looking at, okay, how can I get micronutrients and fiber in? So how could I fill up half of my plate as some fibrous micronutrients. So this could be like your vegetables, it could be a salad. Then focus on getting a really decent amount of that plate in as your protein, obviously having a complex source of carbohydrates. So this is the whole grains, because that's also going to slow down the release of the carbohydrates. So this could be your wholemeal bread, pasta, potatoes, things like that. And then obviously you want a minimum of two tablespoons of your healthy fats onto that as well. So that would be the first thing of then actually balancing out the macronutrients and the nutrition into your meals.

Mikaela Schifferle: 14:54

The next thing would then to be mental satisfaction Huge part. So if you're looking at, if your mind starts going, okay, I need to maybe reduce the amount of carbs I'm having with my meals to help my blood sugars, that's totally fine. But then if you sit there and you're like I love sweet things for breakfast but you force yourself to have an omelet, you're going to leave that meal feeling so unsatisfied and you're going to be experiencing cravings for the next like three, four hours, however long, until you actually hit that satisfaction level. So it's important that you stop, you take a step back and you're like what foods do I really, really love? And then how can I make this work for me individually? And so, if that's sweet things cool, let's create, like some sweet breakfast options that have that balance for you individually but satisfy that mental craving.

Mikaela Schifferle: 15:41

And then, when it comes to actually treating in with your body, and especially if you are used to binge eating or overeating, more often than not you have this core belief that you have to finish everything in front of you. So this is where I want to break this into two different parts of. The first part is mindful eating and really truly stopping and sitting down and being mindful. At the moment, I'm currently living in Japan for the next couple of months and their mindful eating is to a whole level, level Like you do not see anybody walking and eating or drinking at the same time when they're eating. That's what, that's the exact thing that doing. They're present with their meal. It's like this is a form of respect for me to show up and recognize what I'm having in front of me. So stop recognize what you're about to have.

Mikaela Schifferle: 16:20

Put your knife and fork down between each mouthful, because how often are we chewing and the forks like sitting in our mouth ready to go again? Then the next thing and this will probably feel so uncomfortable for so many people to start with, but actually leaving one bite or one tiny little mouthful at the end of your plate. That does not make or break whether you are hungry or full. What this does is it starts to retrain your brain into being like oh, I don't have to finish everything in front of me. I actually get to be the one in complete control, because you have to learn what that satisfaction level is going to look like for you.

Mikaela Schifferle: 16:52

If your hunger and fullness cues are a little bit out of whack at the moment, that's okay. You can still pick up on other cues that you're like okay, I think I'm going to sit with this for a little bit. You know what? If I'm still feeling pachy in 30 minutes, I'm going to come back and have something else. Otherwise I might be totally fine and I can keep going. It's really about tuning into your individual body and being able to pick up on those exact signs and signals that comes from being really, really mindful and learning how to work with your body, not against it.

Amber Fischer: 17:17

Yeah, I love that. That's really a lot of that stuff is things that I'm always saying, because I think we get to the point with diet and nutrition where we really start to think about what we can't have and what we should avoid and what we should cut back on, and really it serves us more to think about what we need to include first, because, like you said, if you're eating a diet that's got that much protein, it's got that much fiber, it's got that much healthy fats, realistically you're not going to be that hungry outside of those meals. Those meals are going to be very filling. Sometimes I have clients that struggle with that because they're so used to eating nothing or very little and so like switching to eating a lot of fiber and a lot of fats and a lot of protein is like whoa, this is a lot of food and that's a mindset shift right there. But any cravings that you're having beyond that, whether it be for sweets or whatever, like you said, are like mental cravings in a lot of ways. Sometimes I think they can be maybe your body calling out for a nutrient. I think when people struggle with binge eating over time they may deal with nutrient deficiencies that could be contributing magnesium deficiencies and stuff like that.

Amber Fischer: 18:39

I think about that a lot, with chocolate cravings right, but at the same time yeah, a lot of it's a mental craving, and so you have to recognize and appreciate the fact that you are going to have cravings. It's normal, it's a human response to like sugar. I mean it's delicious for a. Really, you know, fats, sugar, like our bodies are primed to like those things, so you're going to want them from time to time and it really doesn't serve us to say like, okay, from today on I'm never going to touch I don't know a pastry again because it's bad for my PCOS, it's bad for my blood sugar. It's more, like you said, filling up on what you need to include, what's good for you to include, and then from there also building in space for the things that you love or the things you know you have cravings for.

Amber Fischer: 19:30

I had a conversation with a client just yesterday about this, because she craves chocolate a lot and I said, well, okay, you know, there's two types of chocolate, right, we've got dark chocolate, which usually people will say, okay, switched to dark chocolate and that'll just take it all away, and I'm like okay, I've been there, I know that's not what's happening here, because dark chocolate, yeah, I mean it might take the edge off, but at the end of the day, like sometimes you're craving some milk chocolate, right.

Amber Fischer: 19:56

So I'm like, well, build into your diet daily a little bit of dark chocolate so that you're you know you've got that that itch is being scratched. It's also a healthy fat, good source of antioxidants. It's good for you, right. But then on top of that also, we can leave space in you know the amount of calories that I have you eating, or what have you for you to have some like actual chocolate that you want. You know, I mean we could do it daily, we could do it a few times a week, like it's, it's up to you, it's whatever you feel like your body is calling out for, and I think that just takes so much of the pressure off to just say like, okay, well, it's there and I'm going to be able to have it when I want it, you know 100% and as humans we don't process negatives, like if I literally sat here and was like, okay, do not think about a purple spotted elephant.

Mikaela Schifferle: 20:52

And he's like, oh, purple spotted elephant. Like that's all I can think about. As soon as you say I can't have a pastry anymore or I can't have chocolate from today, all your brain is going to think about is how do I get that pastry, how do I eat that chocolate? You've literally just told us, like telling child, you cannot go and press that big red button or something like I'm going to do everything in my power to push the boundaries, to try and press that big red button, like this is fun and us as humans, we have an inner rebellious side of us.

Mikaela Schifferle: 21:16

So you're literally setting yourself up to want to eat that food and then, because you've then classified it as I can't have the pastry because the pastry is bad, once you do eat the pastry because you will, because it's now forbidden food and we love to test the boundaries you've then labeled the food is bad, which then means once you eat it, you've now labeled yourself as a bad person. And then this cues the feelings of guilt, shame, frustration, the why can't I have control? I'm no good at this. You know all of those which is just consuming to have those feelings as well. So this and I think this also goes back to what you were saying earlier of food is not inherently good or bad, and when you remove those foods, you remove the food down at this pedestal that you've put it on and apparently by stopping to try and over control the food, you actually end up being in more control anyway.

Amber Fischer: 22:02

Yeah, it's very ironic and I understand that it doesn't seem like it's going to work when you're in it.

Amber Fischer: 22:09

I totally get that, and you know there there's a lot of you kind of have to do it all, though you have to do it a hundred percent, because if you I mean you you dip your toe in the water and and and you know it takes time to to build new habits and things like that. But you, like you said, you have to kind of let go of that belief that there are inherently good or bad foods, because once you you start making that fundamental mistake of of conflating your own self-worth with what you're eating, then you say, okay, this is bad, now I'm bad. That really just drives the whole process even further, right, and that that makes you want some people feel that shame and that guilt, and that that causes them to eat out of some sort of like warped desire to almost like punish themselves. So it's, it's self-sabotaging, right and there's. I have so much empathy, and you know empathy and sympathy for those feelings, because I know they're very real and they're very painful.

Amber Fischer: 23:15

By the way, I'm gonna ask you then this is not on our list of topics, but do you have any books that you really liked on this topic? I know one that I usually recommend is when Food is Love by Janine Roth, and my eyes were just it's on my bookshelf over there. My eyes were just like drawn to that. So sometimes when that happens, I feel like I'm supposed to say it. Maybe somebody needs to read that book. But that's a great one.

Mikaela Schifferle: 23:41

I don't know if you I'm putting you on the spot, so if you don't, know that's okay, you, as you said that in your eyes, I've got my eyes looked down and it's called Just Eat it and it's by Laura Thompson, psa, and it's how intuitive eating can help you get your shit together around food Super, super good. It goes through all of the aspects of like incorporating gentle nutrition, taking back the control, changing your mindset, I believe, because if we really break it down and peel back the layers for a lot of women, it all stems back down for a lot of women to body image. Right, the reason why we started Restrictive Diets was to change the way our bodies look. The reason why we cut out certain foods is to try and change the way our body looks, which then leads us to having an unhealthy relationship with our bodies and with food, and the binge eating comes from that. So it looks at like all those different aspects of it which is really cool.

Amber Fischer: 24:29

Oh, that's neat. Yeah, that's definitely a good recommendation. I'll try to link to both of those in the show notes for everyone. But I think, to piggyback on your point there, the really hard thing about PCOS, I think, is that there's that element of like the body image stuff.

Amber Fischer: 24:47

For sure, because we struggle with weight gain, we struggle with weight maintenance, we have all these other symptoms that make us feel less than feminine, right, facial hair, some of us deal with hair loss, some of us deal with all that kind of stuff, right, but then at the same time we also have this metabolic condition that is improved by lifestyle change Am I changing the way that we eat? And so sometimes that gets into very tricky territory where you're dealing with all of these inherent body image issues but at the same time, your diet does need to change some in order to improve this chronic health condition that you have. So you're struggling to find where the two can meet and where you can still love yourself and accept yourself and practice mindful and intuitive eating at the same time that you're also making a real conscious difference for your condition. So do you ever work with women with PCOS and kind of what do you. How do you handle that?

Mikaela Schifferle: 25:53

Yeah, 100%. And this is where I think it comes back to. I would say everyone has their own individual binge eating onion right, and you've got to peel back the layers that get to the root of what is the driving factor for this. And so, of course, when you have the two that you've got to work on, it does it feels tricky and it sometimes feels like your mind is conflicting. It's almost like you have a devil in an angel sitting on your shoulders, going back and forth. And this is where I always say let's break this into two different parts.

Mikaela Schifferle: 26:19

When you look at being the healthiest version of yourself and you think about this definition of health, what comes to mind for you? And I mean like going well deeper than just surface level, because for a lot of women we've grown up in a world where health is a size or health is a specific look, so they might have an image in your head. But I'm like let's go deeper than that. Let's go deeper than that and just keep getting to the bottom of it. And when I get to the root of for a lot of it, for my clients that have PCOS, it's oh, I want to. I want to actually have a functioning menstrual cycle. I want to have stable energy, Like I don't want to have a three to four PM energy crash anymore. You know, I want to know how to eat to nourish my body and to feel really good. And when we get to the root of that, it's like great, now let's work with that. So then, once you actually start to work with your body, it's like you're showing up with this new form of self respect. And when you respect your body, your body is going to respect you back. So it's then like you, you're starting to become your own best friend. And then, on flip side of this because, yes, the body image side of this journey is still well and truly there this is where we start to challenge core beliefs that my clients have had for years about their self worth, being attached to a number or a size.

Mikaela Schifferle: 27:26

And this is where I get my clients to start to work through so many different types of self care practices. And this is where it could be so incredibly different for absolutely everybody. Right, For some people, self care, let's say, like they're a mum. It's literally taking five to 10 minutes out just for themselves to come and have that that peace. For some of my other clients. It's more about actually spending time and putting nice smelling moisturiser on their body and doing self acceptance massages and meditations. Or it's more about wearing clothes that feel good, like doing a wardrobe cleaner and getting rid of all of those pieces of clothing that it's like I'll keep this because one day I might fit back into it. It's like no, we're done with that.

Mikaela Schifferle: 28:05

And actually showing up for yourself, with that care and that respect and that self care which, for a lot of women, we don't do enough about, Because so often we tear ourselves down, braid ourselves, pick apart all the things that we want to change and be different at and we're not good at X, Y and Z rather than being like you know what. I'm actually pretty amazing at some things, and that's cool. I might not be exactly where I want to be and I might not love every part of me, but I still can accept myself and celebrate myself for some of the amazing things that I'm doing, and getting to that place as a woman is quite empowering and very, very powerful, because it means then you push yourself in so many other areas of your life as well.

Amber Fischer: 28:44

I really love that. You're very well spoken. I'd love listening to you. You have you really have a way of putting things into words that's like really profound. So thank you, Thank you for that. I appreciate you sharing that because I agree with you. I think that's very, very true. So I'm like I was gonna piggyback on it, but there's really nothing else to say.

Amber Fischer: 29:10

That was like the perfect explanation. So I guess what I want to hear now are if you have any specific stories to share of people that you've worked with or like any memorable kind of moments. Or because I know people, you know this can get very philosophical, it can get very in the like, weeds of like okay, well, wouldn't this be perfect if life really worked like that. But tell us a little bit about some people maybe that you know in real life that have actually made these changes.

Mikaela Schifferle: 29:43

Yeah, it's interesting. You asked this because I was literally chatting with one of my clients the other day. She has recently just finished with our time together, which is always so bittersweet when you can't finish up because you're like I call it gradually.

Mikaela Schifferle: 29:54

So there's no such a connection to it. I know You're like I'm so happy for you that you've got to this place, but like I don't want to leave, leave our weekly chats and whatnot. So we're talking because when she first started, you know her mind was very much like okay, I need to stop binge eating because I need to lose weight. Like I hate the way my body looks. This is awful. I'm consumed with food thoughts 24 seven. I'm always thinking about my body. I don't wear clothes like I wear baggy clothes everywhere because I don't like my body. You know I cover up at the gym. I don't feel like I can be intimate with my partner like it was just, it was all consuming her every aspect of life. As soon as she was by herself, she would binge eat, secret, eat all this sort of stuff. And we're talking the other day how, throughout the journey, like every step, she's like I don't even think about weight loss. You know I have a completely different mindset and outlook on how I show up and how I treat my body and she ended up losing a little bit of weight, but it was complete byproduct because her habits had actually changed Right, and she was like I've now gotten to this place where I have complete control over food, no matter what careful life throws my way. If I've had a shitty day at work or whatnot, I have control. Like I have so many other outlets that I use that have nothing to do with food. Her relationship with her partner has like 10 fold improved. She goes to the gym in like whatever she wants to wear that day, whether it's sports crop top and tights or you know, it's true, but she doesn't cover up anymore. She actually goes out in clothes that make her feel like she steps into her power. She's like I feel confident wearing this and it was just so amazing to see this shift because when she started, it was I need to look this way to fit into society, and now she's like no, I am me, no one else, and that's actually my power, and she literally has just become the healthiest version of herself and the ripple effect that she has noticed it into her relationships, her friendships, her career, because her self-confidence has improved, her self-trust has improved, is amazing, like it's so inspiring to see, and this is why I think this journey is my pride and passion, because, yes, this journey has like a whole nutrition aspect to it and obviously I'm a qualified nutritionist, but I've done extra training and studying psychology, because there's a psychological aspect of this journey and when you pair both of them together it's like you almost become unstoppable.

Mikaela Schifferle: 32:07

And I know that when a lot of women sat in she was in this place as well. She was like I have tried so many things. She was so hesitant. She was like I just I don't know if this is going to work, because I've tried 50 other things and I always end up exactly back where I started. Right it's, I'm good for a couple of weeks.

Mikaela Schifferle: 32:22

Something happens. Binge it, I'm back where I started. Try something new, good for a month. Something happens. Fall back.

Mikaela Schifferle: 32:28

Like it's that cycle that's exhausting. So I actually feel free, like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders, and when we're talking, it's like bringing me to tears, because I think for a lot of women they're like I don't see how this can be possible. I don't actually see how I can have food freedom and that control, because this is how I've been like this for years. And that's where I want to change the story for so many women that you actually can't. You can get to that place where, yeah, you have to think about food a little bit because we need it to live.

Mikaela Schifferle: 32:54

But it's not this all consuming obsession anymore.

Mikaela Schifferle: 32:58

There's no binging, there's no wanting to jump on the newest restrictive diet trend that's out there.

Mikaela Schifferle: 33:03

It's actually just you respect your body, you accept your body, you have control and you live your life Like. You have energy to go on holidays, to spend time with your friends and family, to not go out for dinner and be restricting all day. Sit at the dinner at the restaurant table, having already looked at the menu and knowing exactly what you want to have, and then counting down the minutes until the waiter comes over. You order your food and you're counting down the minutes until your food gets there. You go home, you eat more because you felt so guilty. You actually haven't been present at all or spent that quality time or created core memories with anyone there. It's like we get to change that and I always say to some of my clients this is it, this is our one shot at life. We don't get to come back. We don't get a take two of this. So you actually want to make sure that you are that healthiest, most confident, that best version of yourself that you actually get to be.

Amber Fischer: 33:51

Yeah, I love that. It's a very similar approach to looking at the root cause. So my approach to PCOS is all about looking at the root causes of PCOS and managing those so that there's a cascade, a ripple effect to the actual symptoms. We don't address the symptoms. We address where the symptoms come from. And in your work it's so similar because so many of the symptoms come from that root of those basic issues with body image and just self-acceptance. So it's really cool to see how, when that changes, everything else changes as well. It's fascinating.

Mikaela Schifferle: 34:32

Well, that's how you create sustainable results. If you just address the symptoms, it's just like slapping a band-aid over the top of it and it's like, oh yeah, you feel okay, so then it's just going to come back. And that is literally. My ultimate goal of every single one of my clients is this is it. I want to put an end to this for you so you can actually live your life, and that's what I saw when I was working at Weight Watchers is women had been on and off Weight Watchers since they were 15. And now they're in their 60s. That's their whole life.

Mikaela Schifferle: 34:59

It's like no, there has to be a different way. I know.

Amber Fischer: 35:02

That's what I tell people too. I'm like I want this to be the last time that you ever do anything, that you ever have to put this much effort or thought into your food, like ever again. You know, because it's just it's. I mean, it is a vicious cycle and the research plays out that that cycle is going to go again and again and again unless you really deal with the deeper reasons behind why you're falling into those patterns. Yeah, absolutely so. If anyone's listening right now and they want like a practical tip, maybe something that they can follow today to start working on some of this on their own, is there anything that you would tell them to do or anything that you would recommend?

Mikaela Schifferle: 35:51

So the first thing I would say is start to develop awareness around your patterns, around your behaviors. What, the why, the how, the when does it happen? So actually recognize? Do you have individual triggers that play out? Is it an emotion, is it stress, is it sadness, is it loneliness, is it boredom? What is it? Specific food?

Mikaela Schifferle: 36:10

I want you to really take a moment to sit down and be like do I have any restrictions that are playing out? You know, do I tell myself that I can only have certain portions of food, or I can't have some foods? If you're somebody who says, oh no, I can't have that in the house, otherwise I'll eat the entire thing? It's kind of like out of sight, out of mind type of thing. That's a restriction, you know. So start to just to get, get that self awareness around all of it, because then what you can do from there is you can then start to pick and choose which ones you want to really slowly start to work through, start to challenge. For an example, if you've told yourself I can't keep chocolate in the house because out of sight, out of mind, then that could be a great one to start with, whereas, go out, buy five blocks of chocolate called the five block, like the five chocolate block challenge, and have them there, allow yourself to have some every single day, guaranteed to start with. Yes, you're going to eat a little bit more than maybe what you're wanting to, but you're removing that novelty.

Mikaela Schifferle: 36:58

It's always like I said my clients, if you would imagine a cow in a field and the big field was full of green, luscious grass, and then in the middle of the field it was a little fenced off area and that's where the cow was. But the cow was, you know, shitting where it was eating. The grass was dead. It was just disgusting. As soon as those gates opened and the cow can finally get out into the green, luscious, wide field, it's absolutely going to go to town. It's like, oh my God, I have to eat as much as I can right now, because what if I get locked back up into that little mini ugly? We don't want to be there.

Mikaela Schifferle: 37:31

So, same as when you first introduce these fruits back in, your mind's going to be like, oh, let's, let's, let's eat as much as we can, just in case we restricted again. But as your mind starts to learn and trust that, oh my God, we've got five blocks there. We're all good. You know we can have it every day if we really truly want. And I was like, oh, I can relax, and then you start to notice that you start to forget about the chocolate being there. You only eat it.

Mikaela Schifferle: 37:49

You know, when it crosses your mind you have like two squares one day, four squares the next day, like it. Just you go with the flow right and it all levels out. So you but little bit, by little bit, a little bit becomes a lot. So start to challenge very, very slowly. But then I would say the third thing on top of that is reach out for help. No one has to go through this journey alone. It is so mentally consuming, really, and there's going to be challenging. You get bits, you're going to hit roadblocks, speed bumps. It's okay. It's okay if you're on a journey, but if you have somebody there helping you every step of the way, you obviously get there a lot more effectively.

Amber Fischer: 38:19

Yeah, you get definitely that's true of so many different things with health. If you have a guide to help you through it and an objective outside opinion, it really does help confront sort of your internal biases and the places where you're maybe like skirting around different things. And, yeah, it's, it's important. So, if it's possible for you, definitely work with someone Speaking of that. If people are listening to you and they're kind of resonating with your message or your approach, where can they find you? You know what, what, where? How should they reach out to you? Tell us. I know you have a podcast because I've been on it. Shout out to my episode Favorite. Yeah, tell us about that.

Mikaela Schifferle: 39:08

Yeah, so you can have it head over to my Instagram, which is KJ Wellness, with three S's. I'm always in my DMs. I share so much content over there. I do have my own podcast. If you have enjoyed listening to my voice, then that is called Naked Wellness, where I have lots of guests on. It's just all about the raw, naked truth about health and healing your relationship with food, which is awesome, but they would be probably the two main places to go to. Otherwise, if you can also head straight over to my website, which has more information about my own story and all of that, which is literally just KJWheelnesscomau.

Amber Fischer: 39:40

Cool, and we will link to all of that in the show notes. You guys can check it out if you want to learn more. Well, thank you so much for being here, mikayla. This was a really good episode. I really enjoyed talking with you.

Mikaela Schifferle: 39:51

Thank you so much for having me.

Amber Fischer: 39:53

All right, anything else you want to add before we go? I should ask you that before. No, okay, all right, talk to you guys later. Bye.